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The other side of IraqViews: 968
Jan 18, 2007 8:36 amThe other side of Iraq#

Frederick A. Babb
Of course the public doesn't know, how could they?


Did you know that 47 countries have reestablished their embassies in Iraq?

Did you know that the Iraqi government currently employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?

Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated, 364 schools are under rehabilitation, 263 schools are now under construction and 38 new schools have been built in Iraq?

Did you know that Iraq's higher educational structure consists of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers, all currently operating?

Did you know that 25 Iraq students departed for the United States in January 2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?

Did you know that the Iraqi Navy is operational?! They have 5- 100-foot patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.

Did you know that Iraq's Air Force consists of three operational squadrons, which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft (under Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night, and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?

Did you know that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion?

Did you know that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000 fully trained and equipped police officers?

Did you know that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq that produce over 3500 new officers each 8 weeks?

Did you know there are more than 1100 building projects going on in Iraq? They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals, 83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69 electrical facilities.

Did you know that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5 have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?

Did you know that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid October?

Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and phone use has gone up 158%?


Did you know that Iraq has an independent media that consists of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?

Did you know that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?

Did you know that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a televised debate?

OF COURSE WE DIDN'T KNOW!

WHY DIDN'T WE KNOW? OUR MEDIA WOULDN'T TELL US!

Above facts are verifiable on the Department of Defense web site.

Private Reply to Frederick A. Babb

Jan 18, 2007 9:50 amre: The other side of Iraq#

Jack Ward
That last line is troublesome.
Why would anyone go to the Department of Defence for "true reporting" of the war?

Doesn't that strike you as Orwellian Frederick?
Would you go to the Kremlin homepage for the good things that Russia was doing in Afghanistan?

That being said, I have two other comments.
1. I'm tired of ANYONE saying the media is biased against George Bush and this war. If that TRULY were the case, they wouldn't have been a propaganda arm keeping the details of what's been going on away from the public for so long.
The Media for the most part is a Corporation and wants the current status quo to keep going.

2. I would be STUNNED if there were absolutely nothing done in Iraq. How many trillion has been poured into it?
The real question is, has there been enough bang for the American buck there? Or is what you're seeing simply a drop in the bucket of what should have been done?
I'm guessing more the latter and not the former.

J

Private Reply to Jack Ward

Jan 18, 2007 2:11 pmre: re: The other side of Iraq#

Frederick A. Babb
I won't argue your points Jack because they are valid. But, just as everyone was so quick to jump on the Warwagon to invade Iraq, it seems everyone is quick to paint a 100% disaster there despite improvements. Bias in either direction of the news isn't good. Walter Cronkite, where are you when we need you?

Private Reply to Frederick A. Babb

Jan 18, 2007 2:27 pmre: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

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Private Reply to GARKO FACTOR 917 215 2510

Jan 18, 2007 4:22 pmre: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

-=Topper=-

Of course the public doesn't know, how could they?

Yippy dip, the only words that were yours. Cut and paste from pundit world right down to the bold caps. Tsk.

At this point none of this can be verified, at best, undetermined.

There is a certain reality however as far as the elementary grades, 70 percent of children in this age group are no longer going to school. And that is from the IRAQI ministry of education.

Of the children that do go, they are not permitted to sit by windows, because of shelling.

Yea I got the warm fuzzies

Roses in a war zone?

Seriously Fred, in a place where two American soldiers are killed a day and with one of those, 22 Iraqis, in a place like that, how much of this do you really believe?

"Built it and they will come" has a new meaning in Iraq. There are pockets of normalcy, no doubt. People going to work and carrying on as best they can. But I wouldn't want to try it like they have to.



Check toppers-tap.com
for details.

 

Private Reply to -=Topper=-

Jan 18, 2007 8:40 pmre: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Frederick A. Babb
"At this point none of this can be verified, at best, undetermined."

Sigh...I guess if it isn't bad news and doesn't support the "agenda" against Bush and the war, it isn't good to research. But, worry not...here is the link. Read, weep and disregard as indifferent news.

http://www.defendamerica.mil/iraq/rebuilding.html

Private Reply to Frederick A. Babb

Jan 18, 2007 8:59 pmre: The other side of Iraq#

Danielle (Dani) Cutler
What I think this ultimately does is make the administrations case for not ever leaving.

Though I am definitely confused. If Iraqis have taken back so much of their country, why is there not a plan for the US to exit? Why does Bush want to send 21,000 more?

It seems that the Bush administration doesn't even believe what is on this website.

:-)
Dani

Private Reply to Danielle (Dani) Cutler

Jan 18, 2007 11:09 pmre: re: The other side of Iraq#

greg cryns
.
.
Sounds like a lot of undetermined (unproveable) hooey to me, Fred.

Did you listen to Bush on 60 Minutes Sunday? Holy shit. The guys is loony.

greg
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Private Reply to greg cryns

Jan 18, 2007 11:18 pmre: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

greg cryns
.
.
Fred,

I believe liberals are more inclined to listen to both sides of the story than are conservatives. I have both right wing conservative and left wing liberals as true friends. They are both very pig-headed when it comes to their issues.

But I have noticed that the conservatives are more likely to put credence in what their pundits spout. Thus we had the "ditto heads" a few years ago who followed Rush Limbough into his personal hell.

My very intelligent doctor good friend sent me an anti global warming article (in the contrary sense). He says he is convinced that it is totally false. So, he is smarter than I am and it makes me wonder if he might be right.

It's kinda like discussing religion, though I doubt he ever saw Gore's movie. The guy who initiated the article sending referred to "the likes of Gore". Yup, he's a ditto-head and proud of it.

I can speak for myself, Fred, when I say that I rarely jump on any bandwagon without giving it fair circumspect. So, it's not that your article is good news about Iraq, it's that I just am not convinced that the article is the truth.

greg
Lots of info on Audio Books - http://www.audiobooked.com
Work At Home Profiles - a new concept in growing your business
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Private Reply to greg cryns

Jan 19, 2007 7:10 amre: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Frederick A. Babb
Greg,

I would have to agree with you for the most part. But, here on this board, it has been proven that they are quick to critize before digging into the story and/or message. I agree, both sides are extremely pig-headed because it seems as if their "side" just can't be wrong on anything. Like one remark here stating that the polio vaccines were poison is something to be heard in first grade recess and not from adults debating. But, it does represent the mindset when the mind has predetermined that all is wrong or right with an issue regardless of facts.

The list on the site is obvious. After almost four years in Iraq and over a trillion dollars spent, it would be naive to think that anything good hasn't happened. What is shown on our TVs everyday are the bloodshed...mostly in Bagdad. But in the North and South where various ethnic groups don't co-exist, there is more progress in making the country return to a normal life. But...and Dani hinted to it...by reporting positive progress would be translated into supporting the Bush war and that just isn't popular right now. (Nor would it be a logical train of thought to think that way...but the right would any way)

I don't say that this supports the cause of the war nor the deaths of both Americans and Iraqis. But, what I do say is how the news agencies love showing all the negative and none of the positive on, not just this issue, but all issues. That is why, like I said before, we need to revert to the days of Walter Cronkite and telling the news like it is instead of the sensationalism news that Fox and CNN give the world today.

Private Reply to Frederick A. Babb

Jan 19, 2007 7:40 amre: The other side of Iraq#

Ernie Martin
I think as a nation of over 18 million people and many are literate, the country has both good and needed improvements.

It's been said media many times presents news that would get high ratings from the viewers. More viewers means more advertisements for the networks.

There are schools, colleges, hospitals, industries, independent businesses, etc in Iraq. And ofcourse the media with TV stations, newspapers, Radio stations. Even though the country is going through hard times and in a period of transition, the country is not living in stone age. They have oil and somehow their differences within the country must be worked out among themselves.

Cheers,

Ernie



Get Control of Your Finances
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http://positivelivingandbeliefsystems-network.ryze.com/

Private Reply to Ernie Martin

Jan 19, 2007 4:25 pmre: The other side of Iraq#

Danielle (Dani) Cutler
Another question I would ask is how many of these good things that have happened in Iraq are really just fixing what the US destroyed in the first place?

That isn't really progress, is it?

It's difficult to support the good when it was all bad and a lie to begin with.

Private Reply to Danielle (Dani) Cutler

Jan 19, 2007 7:20 pmre: re: The other side of Iraq is outside the frame of reference ...#

James Booth
Whether or not what is on Defense website is verified, verifiable, undetermined, or determinable ...
... is beside the point.

Certainly it is reasonable to suppose that somehow, with all that has occurred and all that has been spent, SOMEWHERE somehow SOME good must have been accomplished - simply impossible that all 30 million Iraqis themselves can have done nothing good even for themselves in the last five years.

The "information" available on that site is NOT under control of *corporate media* which will NOT report such *news* because that might suggest perhaps the "mission" really is accomplished, for which it would be reasonable to expect that any TRUE *journalist* would AT LEAST be asking why the U.S. is not already withdrawing from Iraq.

Added to which, if U.S. withdrawal was underway, and when withdrawal is actually accomplished, corporate media has to *fill the void* - find something else with which to manufacture fear in order to fill its airspace and printed pages ...

*stay tuned* for continued profits

... not to mention renegotiating advertising contracts, replacing ads not relevant to the new "threat"

It seems to occur to no one who has participated in this thread so far - none of whom that I know of have ever been in a war zone - that DOD has to somehow provide to the U.S. military information which gives soldiers and sailors, whose lives are on the line every minute of every day, some sense of accomplishment - SOMEHOW.

My read is that a military mutiny is a real possibility right now, and it does not surprise me at all to see DOD provide something which might keep the troops "on the job" - "boost" their morale as it were.

Divide and Conquer

There is bound to be a massive split in a society in which some think they know what are the effects of war on an individual, while others live it every day.

America is a conquered nation.


It saddens and frustrates me to think that after what we have learned through these pages, some among us STILL assume the person who is privileged to sit in the chair behind the desk in the Oval Office actually controls anything; still believes there is some Left vs Right, or Republican vs Democrat agenda, or some such which in any way meaningfully determines what is "reported" on television.

What is displayed on that tube is what has been determined to be "of interest" to viewers
- to keep those viewers coming back.

In that way, what is displayed on that tube may have little, if anything, to do with reality now.

NOW when *Reality TV* is pure staged fantasy, eh ?

Asking "Why does Bush want to send 21,000 more?" misses the *reality* that GWB ...

Anything he says or does.

... is little more than a sideshow - a puppet show at that
- like putting kids in one room with a whole day's supply of movies on VHS and CD
... while "parents" cope with the "storm" outside.

Looking at the numbers here, I cannot help but think how difficult it must be for most folks to attempt, or even consider, the "maladjusted" life - to go beyond "accepted thinking" or to look past the "pretty colours" so as to begin see a larger picture ...

Simply too much I suppose

... and what would be accomplished if the *many* did begin to see a larger picture
- more suicides ? Despair ? Fear of anarchy ?

Saddens me to see people who could be accomplishing something together still skirmishing with each other over trivialities.


Would a "larger picture" do anything at all to help anyone live life better ?

Yesterday, I listened to a man who thinks his opinions stand for the *good* of Oregon citizens say that he puts people above the environment.

His opinion, which makes him a buck and a friend today ... but he cannot answer what we will do when we discover that a *sustained* practice of putting humans FIRST and environment a lesser priority results in an environment that cannot support human life.

I think not only educators have to be aware that what people are pointing at, what the "buzz" is about, may be ...

outside the carefully crafted *frame* in which people are seen pointing, heard buzzing

- *nothing at all* -

It is what you make of it.


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

Jan 19, 2007 7:33 pmre: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Jack Ward
I have no problem putting credit where credit is due Frederick.
I just question the source. As should we all.
I don't trust the government to tell me how good a job they are doing.
J

Private Reply to Jack Ward

Jan 19, 2007 8:13 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

William J
Dani wrote:

"Though I am definitely confused. If Iraqis have taken back so much of their country, why is there not a plan for the US to exit? Why does Bush want to send 21,000 more? "

Now thats acinine Dani, Because Clinton didn't outline the exit plan when he signed the Iraqi Liberation act of 1998.

Topper wrote:

"Seriously Fred, in a place where two American soldiers are killed a day and with one of those, 22 Iraqis, in a place like that, how much of this do you really believe?"

Now Topper Who do you think are killing these people? Its not too hard to figure out. Instead of dwelling on Bush bashing, Why don't you switch your focus to the Bilderbergers. At least you might find out whats going on behind the scenes.

William

Private Reply to William J

Jan 20, 2007 1:41 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Lili Fuller
> Now thats acinine Dani, Because Clinton didn't outline the exit plan when he signed the Iraqi Liberation act of 1998.

Typical William. Always blaming someone that was not involved in the disgusting machinations of the Bush administration, and calling Dani asinine. William, you have no credibility. Your arguments are consistently inane and not worth reading. I don't know where you get the shit that you write, but you really should consider alternative sources. Because of your poor writing skills, it may be the only thing that might make people consider that you are not a world class twit. But I doubt it. And don't even get me started on Topper, who shows far more astuteness in the political arena than you could ever hope. (This is where you have to pull out your dictionary.)

Lili

Private Reply to Lili Fuller

Jan 20, 2007 4:50 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

William J
I guess you don't get it either Lili. You know what they say. Ignorance is bliss.

Its funny that when I post facts I get heckled and accused of having no credibility. Why don't you do something atleast productive for once Lili like looking up the Bilderbergers in search.

William

Private Reply to William J

Jan 20, 2007 5:17 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

James Booth
What is going on behind the scenes, William ?

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberger


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

Jan 20, 2007 2:54 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

-=Topper=-

William, for sake of anything sharpen your points. They are dull beyond measure and lead us nowhere.

Here is an attribute if I may, William has zero confidence in our military to protect us here at home.



Check toppers-tap.com
for details.

 

Private Reply to -=Topper=-

Jan 20, 2007 6:34 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

William J
That is so not true. Anymore wise cracks like prove your unintelligence and low credibility.


William

Private Reply to William J

Jan 20, 2007 6:49 pmre: The other side of Iraq#

Bruce Carter
Fred,

posting propaganda from the Department of Defense is about one of the dumbest things you could possibly do...

You posted this as a joke, correct?


Here's a good one:>

"...Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq and phone use has gone up 158%? .."


Chances are that these cell phones are being used to more effectively coordiate attacks against the US military....

That IS good news.

Private Reply to Bruce Carter

Jan 20, 2007 7:25 pmre: re: The other side of Iraq#

-=Topper=-

We say "end the war", you then give remarks about our nation being overthrown, and we end up speaking Arab or some such. What from that can I assume then William, that are military isn't up to the task of defending our own borders?



Check toppers-tap.com
for details.

 

Private Reply to -=Topper=-

Jan 20, 2007 7:38 pmre: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

James Booth
William gets my vote for Most Extreme Sense of Humour


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

Jan 20, 2007 7:57 pmre: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Lili Fuller
He gets my vote for most extreme point of view based on nothing. He also gets the Barely Coherent Award Backed By Indignation.

Lili

Private Reply to Lili Fuller

Jan 20, 2007 8:20 pmre: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq by Iraq reports#

-=Topper=-

Headlines from electronicIraq.net

Iraq's Struggling Health Care System (Part 1): What They Asked For, They Did Not Get
19 January 2007
The convoy of flatbed trucks picked up its cargo at Baghdad International Airport last spring and sped northwest, stacked high with crates of expensive medical equipment. But instead of being delivered to 150 brand-new Primary Health Care centres (PHCs) as originally planned, the Eagle Global Logistics vehicles were directed to drop them off at a storage warehouse in Abu Ghraib.Not only did some of the equipment arrive damaged at the warehouse, one in 14 crates was missing. The shipment was fairly typical: roughly 46 percent of some 70 million dollars in medical equipment deliveries made to the warehouse last spring had missing or damaged crates or contained boxes that were mislabeled or not labeled at all. Even if the equipment finally makes it through the bureaucratic logjam, lack of trained personnel to operate it, especially outside major cities, will severely limit its utility. The Army Corps had written a 15-day training plan into the contract, but over time, this had been whittled down just three days. Iraqi Ministry of Health officials have given up hope that any training at all will accompany the sophisticated equipment.

Democracy Languishes, but Neo-Con Strategy Lives
19 January 2007
The Project for the New American Century may have effectively closed up shop two years ago and its key neo-conservative allies in the administration, such as Scooter Libby and Douglas Feith, may be long gone, but the group's five-year-old Middle East strategy remains very much alive. This is not the "Wilsonian" strategy of transforming Iraq into a model of democracy and pluralism that will then spread domino-like across the entire benighted region of autocrats, monarchs and theocrats whose oppression and backwardness have, in the neo-con narrative, been the main cause of anti-U.S. Islamic extremism. On the contrary, that "idealist" vision has largely disappeared from the administration's discourse, particularly over the past year as Iraq slipped steadily into sectarian civil war, despite having been enthusiastically embraced by George W. Bush and his neo-conservative supporters after their early justifications for war in Iraq - Saddam Hussein's alleged weapons of mass destruction and ties to al Qaeda - proved unfounded.

Kurdistan, low in violence but lacking services
19 January 2007
Unlike other parts of the country, the three-province autonomous northern region of Kurdistan is not the Iraq of roadside bombs and beheadings. It is relatively safe and well-protected by an experienced security force. Locals and foreigners alike can walk around freely and there is even an active nightlife. "Have you seen the other parts of Iraq? It's spectacular. It's peaceful," states a website advertisement to lure tourists and investors to Kurdistan, which consists of Sulaymaniyah, Dahuk and Arbil provinces. "Welcome to Iraqi Kurdistan where democracy has been practiced for over a decade. This is not a dream. It's the other Iraq," adds the advertisement. However, not all Kurds are in accordance with the picture painted of their region by advertisements or politicians.

Call for determined action by authorities after five more media employees killed
18 January 2007
Just weeks after the UN security council's adoption of Resolution 1738 on the protection of journalists in armed conflicts, a new string of killings of journalists in Iraq has underlined the urgent need for the Iraqi government to take determined measures to protect its country's media personnel, Reporters Without Borders said today. A total of 146 journalists and media assistants have been killed since a US-led coalition invaded Iraq in March 2003.

U.S. Offers Scant Help to Fleeing Refugees
18 January 2007
With some two million of its citizens having fled to other countries and another 1.7 million internally displaced, Iraq has become one of the world's biggest and fastest growing humanitarian crises for which the United States should take far more responsibility, according to human rights groups and other experts. The administration of President George W. Bush, which is currently spending roughly 30 million dollars a day on military operations in Iraq, has earmarked only 20 million dollars for Iraqi humanitarian needs in bilateral aid for all of 2007, the administration's senior refugee official, Assistant Secretary of State Ellen Sauerbrey, told a Senate hearing Tuesday. It has also granted refugee status to only 466 Iraqis since 2003, she told the Senate Judiciary Committee.

The War Becomes More Unholy
18 January 2007
A stepped up military offensive that targets mosques, religious leaders and Islamic customs is leading many Iraqis to believe that the U.S.-led invasion really was a 'holy war'. Photographs are being circulated of black crosses painted on mosque walls and on copies of the Quran, and of soldiers dumping their waste inside mosques. New stories appear frequently of raids on mosques and brutal treatment of Islamic clerics, leading many Iraqis to ask if the invasion and occupation was a war against Islam. Many Iraqis now recall remarks by U.S. President George W. Bush shortly after the events of Sep. 11, 2001 when he told reporters that "this crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take a while."

An Iraqi Parliamentarian Considers 'The Surge'
18 January 2007
Nadim al-Jabiri, a professor of political science at Baghdad University, a member of Iraq's parliament, and the head of the Islamic Virtue Party, considers the the new Bush administration strategy for Iraq, and warns the new strategy will "legitimize the Iraqi armed resistance to the occupation," will "destroy all non-violent options," and "could lead to increasing the civil violence, and might even spark an Arab-Kurd civil war." Moreover, al-Jabiri writes, "Increasing the U.S. troops will show Iraqis that the U.S. administration is against setting a timetable for withdrawing all the occupation forces."

US, Jordan, Syria Must Open Doors to Iraq Refugees
17 January 2007
With the Senate Judiciary Committee holding hearings today on the plight of Iraqi refugees, Human Rights Watch called upon the Bush administration to share the responsibility of protecting refugees fleeing the war in Iraq. The administration should significantly increase the number of Iraqi refugees it will resettle this year and contribute quickly and generously to the UN refugee agency's appeal for financial assistance, Human Rights Watch said. Jordan has shut its border to Iraqi men between the ages of 17 and 35, and a growing number of Palestinian refugees trying to flee Iraq are currently stranded at Syria's border. Human Rights Watch said that Jordan and Syria are violating on a daily basis the most fundamental principle of refugee protection - nonrefoulement, which prohibits the return of refugees to persecution or serious harm.

Anything But a Happy New Year in Iraq
17 January 2007

Iraqis have left a bloody 2006 behind, but the two opening weeks of 2007 do not bode well for the rest of this year. As the United Nations reported a death toll of 34,000 civilians for last year, the non-government organization Iraq Body Count suggested that more than 1,000 civilians have been killed during the New Year already. And that count came before the bombings at Baghdad University Tuesday. The high death toll comes amid heated debates in Baghdad and Washington on the ability of Iraqi and U.S. forces to secure the war-torn country. Many in Iraq doubt that the current strategies could resolve the security and political crisis that the country is sinking deeper into. They see the factors of instability in 2006 continuing into this year.

UN death figures paint a grim picture
17 January 2007
The Iraqi government must move fast to curb sectarian violence and establish the rule of law to prevent the deaths of more innocent civilians, said a United Nations senior official and an Iraqi analyst. On Tuesday the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq (UNAMI) said just over 34,000 Iraqi civilians were killed last year and nearly 37,000 wounded. "Without significant progress in the rule of law, sectarian violence will continue indefinitely and eventually spiral out of control," Gianni Magazzeni, the UNAMI chief, said as he issued UNAMI's ninth bimonthly report on the human rights situation in Iraq at a news conference in Baghdad. The report, which covered the period of 1 November to 31 December 2006, stated that 6,376 civilians were killed violently in November and December - 4,731 of them in Baghdad - and that most died as a result of gunshot wounds. This breaks down to be just over 100 deaths a day.

Population influx is biggest problem in south
16 January 2007
Iraq's Shi'ite Muslim-dominated southern provinces have witnessed far less violence over the past three years than their eastern and northern counterparts. As a result, hundreds of thousands of Shi'ites have fled south or returned from abroad to seek refuge there, giving rise to a number of militias and making it increasingly difficult for aid agencies to cater to the needs of the displaced. "Aid workers all over the country lack security. In the south, we work in difficult conditions because of the presence of militias," said Mayada Obeid, a spokesperson for South Peace Organization, an NGO based in Basra, some 550km south of the capital, Baghdad, and Iraq's second biggest city. "Sectarian differences have caused the death of many aid workers because people don't understand us when we say we're neutral. They would rather live without assistance than receive aid from people of a different sect."

US air strikes isolate Baqubah villagers
16 January 2007

Hundreds of people have been trying to flee the eastern Iraqi province of Diyala, close to the Iraqi-Iranian border, following a recent offensive by US and Iraqi troops in the area. Although the offensive has ended, scores of families in rural villages were said to be hiding in their houses for fear that air strikes might start again. "During the past week, US forces have been attacking rural areas near Baqubah trying to flush out insurgents. Their air strikes have killed about 14 civilians and led to the capture of dozens of insurgents. But these attacks have caused many people to suffer because of lack of assistance and difficulties in getting to health centers," said Salah Ahmed, media officer for Diyala provincial council.

U.N. Officials Question Iraq's Rough Justice
16 January 2007
The U.S.-backed government in Baghdad is facing harsh criticism from the international community for ignoring calls to adopt a policy of restraint with regard to carrying out death sentences against the members of Iraq's former ruling party. Reacting to the hanging of Saddam Hussein's two close aides Monday, senior U.N. officials and human rights organizations warned that the government must end its policy of executions, which they see as serious violation of international human rights standards. "Those responsible for serious human rights violations must be brought to justice," said Louise Arbour, the top U.N. official for human rights. "But to be credible and durable, the fight against impunity must be based on respect for international human rights standards."

Disease alert after sewage system collapses
15 January 2007
Residents of Iraq's capital, Baghdad, are at risk of contracting a range of waterborne diseases as the city's sewage system has collapsed after four days of heavy rain, the country's health ministry said on Monday. For nearly a week now, 45-year-old teacher Jassim Abdullah has been forced to buy bottled water for his family's daily use at an expense that his meager income barely covers. "We can't use tap water for drinking or cooking. It's all sewage. That is why I have put aside 100,000 Iraqi dinars [about US $75] to buy water for cooking and washing," said Abdullah, a father of five girls, from Baghdad's poor neighbourhood of Hurriyah.

A Tribute to Yasin
15 January 2007
A courageous and talented journalist, IWPR contributor Yasin al-Dulaimi was recently killed in a roadside bombing. Yasin, 36, died of severe head injures on December 26 after being hit by a roadside bomb in the Baghdad neighborhood Kadhimiya. He was driving home when the device, targeting a US convoy, went off. He died at the scene. He's the second IWPR contributor to have fallen victim to the conflict. Last April, trainee journalist Kamal Anbar was killed when US and Iraqi troops raided a neighborhood in the capital.

A New Real Estate Market in Iraq: The House Swap
15 January 2007
Thousands of families have now been displaced by both Sunni and Shia insurgents. Abdul-Khaliq Zangane, a parliamentary deputy and member of the parliamentary committee on displaced and migrants, says that through November 2006, around 100,000 families had been forced from their homes. As a result, a new phenomenon has emerged: Sunni and Shia families swapping houses. Real estate agents provide lists of available property, facilitating swap arrangements. When Abdul-Fatah heard about the housing exchanges, she immediately started looking for a Sunni family displaced from the capital willing to take her house in Baquba. After many inquiries, she found a real estate agent in the Mashtal neighborhood of southeastern Baghdad with a list of uprooted Sunni families looking to swap properties. She made a deal with a family that had left the neighborhood after receiving threats from Shia militants. According to their arrangement, the two families agreed to exchange their houses until the security situation gets better, each taking their own furniture.

Violence against Syrian refugees increasing
15 January 2007
Thousands of Syrian refugees and residents in Iraq face increasing violence and lack of assistance from local NGOs, according to rights groups. According to the United Nations Refugee Agency (UNHCR), there were 686 registered Syrian refugees in Iraq at the beginning of January. Of these, 584 were Syrian Arabs, who mainly live in the Baghdad and Ninewa governorates, and 102 were Syrian Kurds, who live in the three northern governorates of Iraq - Ninewa, Dahuk and Arbil. "In addition to the Syrian refugees registered with UNHCR, we believe there are about 1,000 Syrians in the capital and 500 in different places in Iraq, especially Mosul and Kirkuk," Saeed said. "Every Syrian in Iraq is scared because of the violence they are facing and most of them have no financial means to leave the country. Also, most of them have built their lives here or are married to Iraqis," he said. Iraq's Syrian Arab refugees arrived in waves between 1954 and 1993, following a succession of coup d'etats that changed the balance of power there and led to the persecution of Syrians of opposing political views.

Anbar province Iraq's worst for violence
15 January 2007
Of Iraq's 18 provinces, Anbar has witnessed more fighting and killing than any other since the US-led occupation of Iraq began in 2003. While US forces flushed out a number of Sunni insurgent groups there in military operations in 2004 and 2005, the insurgents have returned and escalating violence has prevented NGOs and aid agencies from reaching people who desperately need food and medical supplies. Anbar residents say that ever since former president Saddam Hussein was overthrown, they have lived in constant fear. According to counter-insurgency experts, many young insurgent recruits were trained in six towns in Anbar: al-Qaim, Haditha, Anah, Hit, Fallujah and Ramadi. As a result, these five towns have witnessed particularly heavy clashes resulting in the deaths of hundreds of local citizens and the destruction of thousands of shops, schools, houses and government buildings.

Journalist murdered in Mosul, another found dead in Baghdad
15 January 2007
Reporters Without Borders expressed its horror at the murder of freelance journalist Khoudr Younes al-Obaidi, shot dead as he returned to his home in Mosul, northern Iraq, on 12 January 2007. The killing comes eight days after the discovery of the body in Baghdad of Ahmed Hadi Naji, 28, an occasional cameraman for the Associated Press, who went missing on 30 December 2006. These two deaths bring to 141 the number of journalists and media assistants killed in Iraq since the US invasion in March 2003.

Bush's Iraq Plan: Goading Iran into War
15 January 2007
"President Bush's address on Iraq was less about Iraq than about its eastern neighbor, Iran," writes analyst Trita Parsi. "There was little new about the U.S.'s strategy in Iraq, but on Iran, the president spelled out a plan that appears to be aimed at goading Iran into war with the U.S. While Washington speculated whether the president would accept or reject the Iraq Study Group's recommendations, few predicted that he would do the opposite of what James Baker and Lee Hamilton advised. Rather than withdrawing troops from Iraq, Bush ordered an augmentation of troop levels. Rather than talking to Iran and Syria, Bush virtually declared war on these states."



Check toppers-tap.com
for details.

 

Private Reply to -=Topper=-

Jan 20, 2007 10:46 pmre: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

William J
Topper wrote: "We say "end the war", you then give remarks about our nation being overthrown, and we end up speaking Arab or some such. What from that can I assume then William, that are military isn't up to the task of defending our own borders?"

Oh really Topper, because I am smart enough to know what will happen if we Iraq defenseless against terrorists. But you rather stick your head in the sand like some Ostridge. "Oh theirs no threat thats a figment of your imagination."

Speaking of defending our own borders is much of an understatement. Liberals want to give illegals ammnesty just as much. Their have been reports that Muslim Prayer rugs were found on the southern border. The thing is when I see people posting hate filled speech on TS I see a bunch of scared little kids that are clueless on current events and whats down the road.

William

Private Reply to William J

Jan 20, 2007 10:56 pmre: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Lili Fuller
Smart enough for what? Sorry, William, your rants are at the same level of the village idiot of Crawford, Texas, aka, George W. Bush. If I were you, I would not be proud of this comparison.

Lili

Private Reply to Lili Fuller

Jan 20, 2007 11:01 pmre: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

James Booth
Damn !

Pret'near kwick we be findin' skerkros in cornfeels ...


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

Jan 20, 2007 11:17 pmre: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Lili Fuller
If they only had a brain...

L

Private Reply to Lili Fuller

Jan 20, 2007 11:43 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

William J
Thats typical Lili spew more ignorance. Real swift.

William

Private Reply to William J

Jan 21, 2007 1:02 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Dianne Reum
William, in your post you stated, "The thing is when I see people posting hate filled speech on TS I see a bunch of scared little kids that are clueless on current events and whats down the road."

I halfway agree with you. I have come to see Neocons as profoundly frightened people.

Your fondness for Neocon thinking is evidenced by another of your statements: "Their (There) have been reports that Muslim Prayer rugs were found on the southern border."

There are Spanish Muslims. As there are American Muslims. Muslim does not equal "terrorist".

This insinuation (the connection you made between a "Muslim Prayer rug" and trouble at our border) is an example of your hateful and paranoid thoughts which flow from your brain unchecked.

Private Reply to Dianne Reum

Jan 21, 2007 1:49 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Lili Fuller
Bravo, Dianne. You have far more patience than I do. Those statements should have been addressed and you did it well. Frankly, I simply rolled my eyes and I'm sure you know what I thought.

Lili

Private Reply to Lili Fuller

Jan 21, 2007 1:57 amre: The other side of Iraq#

Danielle (Dani) Cutler
"Now thats acinine Dani, Because Clinton didn't outline the exit plan when he signed the Iraqi Liberation act of 1998."


William,

So what you're saying is since Clinton didn't have an exit plan, Bush doesn't need to make one? Uh, yeah, I'm the one who's being asinine...

As I've said many times, please don't bring up Clinton's plan until you finally address the analysis I made on it months ago, for YOU know less.

Clinton's plan has nothing to do with Bush's plan, which is why Bush created his own resolution.

So if you'd like to discuss that further, please go hunt up the thread about it (I've brought it up to the top a couple of times so with a search it shouldn't be too hard to find), and we can discuss it.

Otherwise it's hard to take anything else you say seriously, because you are proving you really would rather not discuss it in any depth.

Dani

Private Reply to Danielle (Dani) Cutler

Jan 21, 2007 2:58 amre: re: The other side of Iraq#

William J
Thanks for proving my point over and over again as I would have responded to your analysis if it deserved a reply. Besides I heard you call me a troll in a past thread. And I'm not going to spend days hunting for it.

Dani, if you want to run a respectable forum then knock off this hate speech against the military Troops, remember they fought for your freedoms Yet It is amazing how many spit on them here at this Truth Seekers forum.

Not take me seriously, Well thats fine food of thought on someone that has absolutely no clue that their are people that what to invade America and take all your freedoms away. You do not how serious the threat is while you make cheap shots with your playgound forum. I don't see anyone on this forum coming up with solutions other than to attack bash by posting copy and pasted propaganda articles.

William

Private Reply to William J

Jan 21, 2007 3:25 amre: re: The other side of Iraq know less ...#

James Booth
" ... for YOU know less."

Why, Danielle ! - your slip is showing !

Point, set, match ? : )

... or should I say "Check !" mate ?

"Clinton's plan has nothing to do with Bush's [lack of a] plan"

* drumroll *

... at the deep end of the pool - where the high board is.

Splash

Damn - skerkro's all wet naow !
.

Private Reply to James Booth

Jan 21, 2007 12:15 pmRE: The other side of Iraq know less ...#

Jack Ward
Once again I would like to plea for content instead of flash.

Please render your comments to points and not personal attacks or observations about the intelligence (or lack there of) of other people.

Not only does it diminish the entire thread and conversation, but it also wastes everyone's time.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Calling someone an idiot does nothing to prove your point.
Name calling only reflects badly on the person involved.

If you've got a point to make. Let's make it.
If not, please go back to the 500 where this stuff is all about drama and not substance.

Thanks,
J

Private Reply to Jack Ward

Jan 21, 2007 12:49 pmre: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Bruce Carter
William:>

"...Dani, if you want to run a respectable forum then knock off this hate speech against the military Troops, remember they fought for your freedoms..."


And how did they fight for our freedoms?

It's easy to repeat the phrase ad nauseum, but how exactly did the military ever fight for our freedoms?

I don't recall seeing the military involved in any civil rights or social justice struggle in this country.

The way I see it, they do fight for the freedom of US capitalists to rape the world, but for the freedom of the average Joe Blow?


How so?

Private Reply to Bruce Carter

Jan 21, 2007 8:23 pmre: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Danielle (Dani) Cutler
"Thanks for proving my point over and over again as I would have responded to your analysis if it deserved a reply. Besides I heard you call me a troll in a past thread. And I'm not going to spend days hunting for it."


--Ah, ok. So I don't deserve the same respect that I have repeatedly offered you when you have brought up threads here. You were the one who brought up the Clinton plan originally, and I actually did my homework and read it. Then responded to it. Then the next time you spouted off again about the Clinton plan, I went and found the thread and brought it back up to the surface. But what you have proven dear William is that your mind is all ready made up and you do not wish to actually engage in in-depth discussion of topics.

So tell me why I should continue to take you seriously? Why should I continue to respect your presence on this forum? Respect is earned, dear boy. You have to show a little to get a little.

Danielle

PS: Jack, I do agree with you about being above attacking others, honestly I wish everyone could just completely ignore the posts they think are idiotic. However, William has proven over and over that he deserves what he gets. God knows I've defended him enough around here, and for what?

If William isn't happy with the way I run things, or that it's not all right-wing talking points, no one is forcing him to read.

Private Reply to Danielle (Dani) Cutler

Jan 21, 2007 8:27 pmre: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Danielle (Dani) Cutler
"I don't recall seeing the military involved in any civil rights or social justice struggle in this country."


--Well that's a very good point Bruce. Usually the military were the ones holding the people back.

Private Reply to Danielle (Dani) Cutler

Jan 21, 2007 8:52 pmre: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

James Booth
" ... how exactly did the military ever fight for our freedoms?
- I don't recall seeing the military involved in any civil rights or social justice struggle in this country.
- The way I see it, they do fight for the freedom of US capitalists to rape the world, but for the freedom of the average Joe Blow? "

It IS a good point, Bruce (Dani) ... as far as it goes.

What IS the purpose of the military in this country ?

What is the ROLE of the military in this country ?

... and WHO is the "military" in this country ?

American military certainly fought "for our freedoms" in the beginning - or there would be no USA
(that was in a different Age - pre-industrial)

Military certainly fought "for our freedoms" against Nazism ?


Why do The People now allow their military, which is intended for *defense* ...

To be used aggressively elsewhere in the world ?


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

Jan 21, 2007 10:50 pmre: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

-=Topper=-

Well thats fine food of thought on someone that has absolutely no clue that their are people that what to invade America and take all your freedoms away

See William, you did it again.

Who is going to invade the US and take our freedoms away? And tell me why exactly it is, that our military couldn't repel the invaders. I feel they could, even now spread far and wide. It would take an allied armed military by air, sea and ground to overthrow the US.

But why do you insist that our military might is not up to the task?

And the freedoms thing. The phraseology is a tad aged. In the past six years there have been a few freedoms indeed stripped.

Freedoms, for no reason other than suspect, some people have indeed lost their freedom.

I have some reasonable respect for our military, even at a time that it may be in their best interest to turn the guns around and regain order out of this chaos. The troubles in Iraq from the start are not the regular grunts fault. But the leadership and lack of it.

Bruce makes a valid point about our military and leadership. As it is William, at many stages and times in history, the US has been the invaders. That is something it seems in your flag waving fervor you just can't fathom. Many times on the world stage the US has been the enemy. In regards to Iraq I also have a fervor. I fervently believe it to be true.



Check toppers-tap.com
for details.

Private Reply to -=Topper=-

Jan 22, 2007 3:32 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

William J
Topper, Everyone should know by now who wants to invade America. Radical Islamic Muslims Boarded Planes and crashed them in the World Trade Center. Its not hard to figure out when you see that horrific act happen on finding out who wants to invaded the United States. If you don't like the U.S. Nobody is forcing you to stay. Feel Free to move over to Iran if you feel we are the invaders. And who was it if Invaded Kuwait and we had to intervine and throw him out of that country? It was Saddam.


Come on topper, lets be an informed citizen from now on. If not, Then pack your stuff and get the hell out of America and that goes for any America hating individual who posts here.

William

Private Reply to William J

Jan 22, 2007 6:48 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

James Booth
William

People (human beings) outside this country generally look to our country as source of a better life.

At the same time, they detest and loathe our government, its actions - interference, controls.

Rightfully so.
_

If any among them want to *invade* America, I am sorry that so paralyzes you.

Get over it.

Wanting to "invade" and actually *invading* America are very different critters.

If "Radical Islamic Muslims" actually did board planes and crash them into buildings, they did it because you and I, and the government we fund and authorize to stop them, FAILED in those duties, and ...

I submit that failure was not an *inability* to stop them.

We have certainly demonstrated our collective *capability* of stopping them easily.

... since we are well capable, it was through willful and purposeful *sabotage* of the very systems put in place TO stop them.
(systems we supposedly still pay for)
_

I have seen no PROOF that "Radical Islamic Muslims" actually did board planes and crash them into buildings.

Instead I have seen video images, which could have been produced ANYWHERE on this earth, of individuals I was TOLD are of ME descent, of individuals who were *identified* by people I do not know (and little trust), of individuals passing through what appears to be an airport boarding gate, after which I was TOLD those men had boarded an aircraft.

I have NEVER seen any *PROOF* those men (whoever they were) actually BOARDED ANY AIRCRAFT anywhere !

Have you ? Can you direct me to those images - to that PROOF ?

I have nothing whatsoever to prove that that any of the 19 so-called "hijackers" were ever ON an aircraft on the morning of September 11, 2001 - since none of their *names* (which were provided so quickly and easily within 24 hours) appeared on any of the passenger lists.

WHO in 2001 could fly as a passenger on an American commercial jetliner *anonymously*

???
_

You, like millions of others, have been fed a STORY of what happened September 11, 2001
- something which resulted in the deaths of over 3000 human beings ...

... yet YOU do not have any proof to support that *story*

OR, on the chance that you DO have such proof, I would VERY MUCH appreciate if you would share that *proof* with the rest of us.

Somehow that *PROOF* seems to remain *secret* from us.

Of course, that *proof* might have been obtained from the usual *forensics* we all take for granted to be part of any *murder investigation* ...

... but such an investigation was denied us by our own government officials who chose to remove and destroy all the evidence.

PRIOR TO ANY EXAMINATION

That alone, I would think, would be sufficient cause for you to choose to live in fear.

I think it simply has not occurred to you, however.

To paraphrase you:
"Come on William, lets be an informed citizen from now on."

Otherwise, sit back, read, listen, and learn.


btw who was it tricked Saddam into invading Kuwait, thinking he would have U.S. support if he did so ... ?


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

Jan 22, 2007 10:28 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

-=Topper=-

Come on topper, lets be an informed citizen from now on. If not, Then pack your stuff and get the hell out of America and that goes for any America hating individual who posts here.

I don't know, but that looks like a get out of here free card to me.

Pack my stuff? It is you that is little informed William, very little.

If radical Islam ( no different in my eye than radical christians, too many to count ) scare you, then you must have been swimming in your own bodily fluids during the cold war.

You see Russia had the means, and since your president, yes yours William, deemed the treaty worthless, they too are back on that track. Not long ago someone posted a story that Russia now has a missile that can go the distance.

And China, once again a country that would rather exile us into oblivion.

But why don't they? Because, even if the United States is the bully of the playground, this particular bully buys the most lemonade.

But they'll hit the US where it lives and transfer the worlds currency to Euro's in effect de-valuing the dollar. You thought the depression was fun, this will be a blast.

And it's all because your holy roller had to be the biggest bully of them all. What "they" thought of doing then they may yet do. On the global scene, I would better imagine that the US is deemed a rogue nation.

William you are the product of the gated community and the trailer park, you have little knowledgeable wealth within the confines of your habitat.

And with that I am done with this, and for now, you.



Check toppers-tap.com
for details.

 

Private Reply to -=Topper=-

Jan 23, 2007 1:33 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

greg cryns
.
.
William is on a roll. He's shaking up our world. That is a good thing. We all need the shakes once in a while.

greg

Want to learn about Web 2.0?
Go here: http://www.squidoo.com/goaffiliate

Private Reply to greg cryns

Jan 24, 2007 3:42 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

William J
Topper, Trailer Park, Who the hell you think you are saying I live in a trailer park. You don't even know me well enought to stoop so low to direct an insult like that.

Radical Islam is more a threat than radical Christians. Its Not Just China that is a problem.

North Korea, Iran, Russsia, Syria, Somalia, Venezuela, Mexico, Just to name a few. Just wait till the radical Muslims march into your town some day when America is no more so you got two choices, convert to Islam and get rid of your house pets or be wacked by some sword carrying muslim. And when everything turns over to the euro and the U.S. Dollar tanks, no metropolous will be spared because of civil unrest breaking out all over.



Private Reply to William J

Jan 24, 2007 7:09 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

James Booth
.

" The most fundamental and major decision that you have to make in your life is this:

Do I live in a friendly or a hostile universe ?"
- Albert Einstein

.

Private Reply to James Booth

Jan 24, 2007 8:48 amre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

William J
James, why don't you ask yourself that. why don't you ask the other people posting here that instead of attacking me for defending myself when I get attacked.

William

Private Reply to William J

Jan 24, 2007 3:03 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Jenny
William wrote: "or be wacked by some sword carrying muslim."

They wouldn't be carrying swords, they would most likely be armed with the Kalashnikov assault rifle, as Bin Laden was often photographed with.

Of course, that's only in the event your paranoid fantasy were to come true. Most likely, the only Muslim knocking on my door will carry a purse or an overcoat and be there as my invited guest.

Jenny

Private Reply to Jenny

Jan 24, 2007 7:03 pmre: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: The other side of Iraq#

Dianne Reum
"Most likely, the only Muslim knocking on my door will carry a purse or an overcoat and be there as my invited guest."

Right on, baby!!! :D

Private Reply to Dianne Reum

Jan 24, 2007 11:23 pmre: The other side of Iraq - friendly universe William#

James Booth
William said:

"James, why don't you ask yourself that. why don't you ask the other people posting here
that instead of attacking me for defending myself when I get attacked."


Difficult for me to decide, William, where you are really.

I am not one to comb posts for "keywords" and phrases with which I can "neatly file" an author.

I do not perceive your heart to be dark either - else I would not attempt to communicate with you.


What is difficult for me is finding substance in your posts, Sir

When I do, I sometimes inquire directly, as I did two or three days ago ...

... but that again provided no clarification from you.


Some of your posts seem to me like a karate chop for which you have envisioned no followthrough.

I confess that I truly cannot decide just what you actually think and / or feel - change perhaps.

Since I can only talk to you but cannot see you, I do not know you as well as the pet turtle my family raised,
and which you remind me of as you "come out once in a while to gulp some air"

Not meaning that in any way to belittle you - that turtle survived one of our dogs using his shell as a

chew toy

Lives very well now, more than 20 years later, fed on a CIA salary ...


The world is a complex dilemma, William ... and I see the universe as essentially friendly.

I do wish the same for you - sincerely


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

Jan 24, 2007 11:58 pmre: re: The other side of Iraq - friendly universe William#

James Booth
Had to think a while to recall we named the turtle Turner.

Mom like Turner so much she got another turtle ...

Turner and Sophie live together still - on the East Coast now.

Turner is totally taken with Sophie, but Sophie ignores him completely.


JB

Private Reply to James Booth

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